I recently spoke with Mark Hurst, the host of Techtonic on WFMU Radio in NYC. We talked about Silicon Valley’s obsessions with growth, their war against sustainability and ethics, and artistic counteractions that invert big tech’s growth-obsessed capitalist logics.

After the roughly 40m discussion, Mark plays a recording of a performative reading he did of my redacted version of Mark Andreessen’s Techno-Optimist Manifesto. This reading was spectacular; when I first heard it in October I reached out and we ended up planning the interview.

You can listen to the show above, on WFMU’s website, or via Apple Podcasts or Spotify.